Discussing Human-Centered Innovation and EQ with Darryl Kelly

DK Be curious about your people. Create that space. Create the time to really understand who they are, what they're carrying, what they're passionate about.

Gillian Welcome to Future Works, DK, and everyone else. This is a podcast dedicated to conversations around innovation within the workforce space. So here we are all together to share research, nerd out on inspiration, and take a deeper glimpse into what we're building and learning here—an aspect which we'll get to do more of today. Michelle and I dive into conversations with leaders.

Gillian We scrutinize case studies, dig into theories of psychology, and share what it really takes to reinvent solutions within the workforce industry.

Michelle I'm Gillian, and I'm Michelle, and we're your hosts, leading you through candid conversations on what's happening in the world of work and how we can each play a part in making it a bit better. You just heard Gillian mention this, and we've touched on it in the intro every single week. But today, we are specifically highlighting the company we both work for, Aspect, as it reclaims its identity as a leader in workforce management innovation.

Michelle But that's a lot of corporate speak in one sentence. So don't roll your eyes—stay with us. Because instead of a commercial for a company that sells a product an individual is probably never going to purchase, we want to introduce you to one of our favorite individuals, our CEO, Daryl Kelly. His vision is driving our innovation at Aspect.

Michelle And we think once you hear about what's happening here, you'll find ways to implement pieces wherever it is that you show up day in and day out. So, I think LinkedIn tells kind of everything you need to know about him if you know how to look for it—not just the posts or the pictures, but it's full of insights about the world through the lens of his background and his family.

Michelle I think DK's breadth is wide and unique because he did not grow up the son of some tech mogul, and he did not get into college on a golf scholarship. Did you? No? Just making sure I get my facts straight.

DK Choir. Choir scholarship. Choir scholarship. Let's start there.

Michelle In spite of those things, DK has consistently been the brightest star shining in every room he's entered. Often, those rooms are dark with the ruts of "the way we've always done things." What DK brings to those conversations is "the way we can do things."

Gillian I'm excited for DK to introduce himself. I'm also excited to tap more into what human-centered innovation means to DK. We'll talk a little bit about product-led strategy and where form meets function in that manner. We'll dive into more visionary realizations that DK has had lately around the modern workforce and what we're all capable of offering within it.

Gillian And of course, we’ve got to get into DK's headspace a little bit around what makes him personally successful day-to-day. So, we'll be asking some of those hard-hitting questions. But before we get started, DK, let's hear your background. Set the tone for us.

DK Set the tone.

Gillian Yeah, set the tone.

DK I don’t know, Michelle did a pretty dang—

Gillian Good.

DK —pretty dang good job. She did a pretty dang good job.

Gillian She knows you pretty well.

DK She does. She does.

Gillian We should probably admit that.

DK We should admit that Michelle keeps my world running. So, yeah. Thank you, Michelle, for that. Look, I think that I just—I have organizational and professional ADHD. I also personally have ADHD. And so throughout my life, instead of seeing that as a limiting factor, I’ve chosen to apply it professionally. And it’s worked out pretty well for me.

DK I’ve always had, like, one to nine jobs at a time. Even when I was younger, it’s always been like, “Alright, well, there’s this thing, and then there’s this thing, and then there’s this thing.” But it always intersected in a few areas. Usually, in the corporate world, there’s always something consistently in the corporate world.

DK Always something in the creative space. And then always something in the coaching or personal development space. I’d say those are the intersections of my being. But first and foremost, I would say I’m a dad, and I love being a dad. I love being a husband. Those are my number one priorities and drive everything that I do.

DK Yeah, I don’t know. I could talk about my background. I guess that’s what LinkedIn is for. And Michelle already did a little bit of that. But look, my life started in consulting. I was that weird kid that was like, “I want to be a consultant when I grow up.” And I did it.

Michelle The deadpan: “I will be a consultant.”

DK “I will be a consultant.” You know, kids are like, “I want to be a firefighter,” and “I want to be a doctor.” And I was like, “No, I want to explore a ton of different things.” And so, consulting always felt interesting to me. This was back when Anderson Consulting and the Big Four or Five firms were around.

DK I loved consultants. I think I had a few friends whose parents were consultants, and they were like rock stars in my world. They’d come to school, and it was like they were floating. You know, doctors had a heaviness to them, and traditional, high-visibility roles like lawyers and teachers seemed rigid. But the consultant parents just seemed different, and I wanted to do that. So, I pursued it aggressively.

DK But the consultant parents just seemed different. And I was like, I want to do that. And then I pursued that very aggressively. I also knew that I wanted to be very creative as well. Photography has been a consistent part of my life—my entire life. You know, I was shooting film and developing my own rolls whenever I could. I would also drop them off and then be like, “Okay, I’m going to be back tomorrow, and I want these developed.”

DK And here's the paper that I want to develop. I was that kid. So those have been the consistencies. It's like photography and then something in corporate America. And now I'm here. I don't know, I hate intros. I really do hate intros. Michelle knows that I don't want to talk about myself, but I guess I gotta get better at talking about myself.

Gillian Yeah, no, we're going to be talking about you for the next 50 minutes. So, we'll work on it. But also, I love to hear that you identified "consultant." You knew what that was at an early age. You were already ahead of the game.

DK Well, I mean, my friend's dad, Mikey, was a consultant, and we’d always do sleepovers at his house. I’d hear the calls he would have and him talking about deals and what was happening at his organization. And I thought, "Oh, this sounds like so much fun!" because I have ADHD.

DK It wasn’t just one box of a thing. Every single time I was at their house, his dad was talking about something different. And I think I loved that. It was like, "Oh man, that fits for me." I think I still bring that curious, consultative energy into every environment I enter.

DK I come in and think, "Okay, situational awareness, limiting factors." There's a template I bring, and I like that approach.

Gillian I'm excited to hear you talk about this aspect. We are building something that very much embodies the direction of human-centered innovation and design. I’d like to tap into your definition of human-centered innovation, what it means to you, and how it can manifest in the workplace.

DK Yeah. Look, people are at the center of everything, and I think we forget that. You know, in my story, when I walked into work at a Big Four consulting firm right out of college, it was like, "This is who you are supposed to be." It was like, "This is what it means to be an Accenture boy."

DK You had to dress a certain way, and you just started fitting into that mold. It was funny because my background and my master’s degree are in industrial and organizational design and psychology. So, I’ve always been curious about this idea: Are we getting it wrong? Shouldn't we want individualism and uniqueness as part of this larger framework?

DK It’s important to have a corporate container and values, but it’s equally important to maintain our unique identities within that framework. We’re creative beings. At our root, we are creators. Whether you’re designing a new product, diagnosing a patient, or fighting fires, it’s all a creative endeavor. Yet, we often leave half of our identity at the door.

DK I firmly believe that the most productive organizations on the planet are the ones that create spaces where everyone belongs—where they can bring their whole selves. That’s what I believe human-centered design is about: creating systems, meeting structures, and environments where people can be at their best.

DK It’s about creating an environment where, at any moment, you can pause and say, "Time out. You just said you had a really hard day. I’m not going to skip over that. Let’s talk about what you’re carrying." Hollywood gets this so right. In writers’ rooms, they don’t just shut the door and start writing. There’s a big emphasis on stepping into the space together.

DK They’ll ask, "What are you bringing into this space?" That’s important because then I see you. I see Gillian carrying something heavy, and I consider that as we engage. You feel better, and we interact with more purpose and intention. The results are exceptional when we create that kind of space.

DK I’m seeing it happen here at Aspect. That intentionality is yielding incredible results. I’ve seen how creating these spaces transforms interactions into ones with deeper purpose and more meaningful outcomes.

Gillian This piggybacks a little on a conversation we had last week with another guest. It’s about getting to know the people you're working with and managing on a personal level—a human-centered, embodied approach. I experienced this with you, DK, two days ago when we hopped on the phone to talk about something work-related. I ended up sharing my stresses about maternity leave. It’s such an interesting element of leadership.

Gillian I’m curious: how can a leader lead with human-centeredness top of mind? You touched on it a little, but I’d love to unpack that further.

DK Be curious about your people. Create the space and take the time to really understand who they are, what they’re carrying, and what they’re passionate about. It takes five minutes. That’s all it took when you shared with me. You said, “Here’s this thing I’m carrying,” and I thought, “Wait, hold on, you just dropped a bomb. How can I move on from that?”

DK That’s an important leadership trait—being emotionally intelligent. We put too much emphasis on IQ, but EQ is just as critical. At the end of the day, leadership is about getting people to integrate, like, and collaborate to solve hard problems together. We need people to do that, and we need to see them as people. Leaders need to slow down to speed up—creating space to truly see their people.

DK Ask them, “How’s your day? What are you carrying? What’s on your mind?” It’s in those connections that we show up better. When we have to tackle tough challenges, we’re not doing it with people we don’t like. We’re doing it with people we adore, and that makes all the difference. Hard work feels different when it’s with people you genuinely care about.

Gillian Absolutely. That’s great. It’s more challenging when we’re all remote. Conversations are truncated—30 minutes on the calendar. But it goes so much further when you take the time to get to know folks. I love what you said: "Be curious about your people."

Gillian What is this person asking you for? What are they solving? What’s at the core of what they need from you? How can you make it better for them? I’m curious about your perspective on how this applies to human-centered products.

DK We need to move beyond transactional approaches. Society has become so transactional and individualistic. A relational approach requires thinking about the user on the other side: "Is this interaction painful for them?" Empathy is key.

DK When designing products, we obsess over details: "Does this button make more sense here or there?" It’s an empathetic process. Shift from “What do I want?” to “What do they need?” In software development, it’s not just about robust functionality. It’s about considering the human on the other side and aiming to delight them.

DK Think about the "wow" factor. What would make someone say, "Hey, come check this out, it’s so cool!" We see this with hard goods, like beautiful phones that inspire pride and excitement. Industrial designers obsess over form and function. We need the same intentionality in software development.

DK Too often, we settle for the bare minimum. But the best products are timeless, beautiful, and intuitive. At our company, we’re focused on human-centered innovation—creating products that genuinely consider and prioritize the humans behind the screens.

DK If we create beautiful and intuitive products, we’ve won. I’ve said this since day one. Our goal is to make products that are timeless and sexy—in the most professional way, of course.

Gillian I love it. That leads us to a more product-oriented discussion. Double-clicking on human-centered design and innovation brings us to the concept of product-led strategy for a brand. Let’s unpack this for listeners who might not be familiar with it. Could you provide your definition of product-led strategy?

DK From our perspective, we’ve been in a stage of sustaining growth—doing the bare minimum. And I’m fine saying that openly because it’s what we thought was best. Incremental changes here, managed services there, some custom design—but we weren’t leading or owning this space as innovators. Returning to a product-led growth model means taking responsibility for creating products that people want—not just for small use cases, but products that spark creativity and innovation.

DK It’s about making people say, "Oh, wait, you can do that? And what about this? And this?" That’s what product-led design and development are about. At the end of the day, everything derives from the product itself. Early startups get this. They create something tangible and then continuously improve on it.

DK We see this approach in industries like automotive and hard goods, where the product is at the center. In software, however, we sometimes lose sight of this because services or custom configurations can overshadow the product. As companies scale, there’s a risk of chipping away at the core product by adding features to satisfy specific customers, rather than focusing on continuous innovation.

DK At the end of the day, we are a product company. A software company. It all ties back to delivering continuous innovation every single day. In the SaaS world, customers aren’t just buying a product; they’re committing to ongoing innovation. They’re buying into the vision of what that product will become in the future.

DK Product-led strategy means delivering value continuously so the product gets better every day. That’s what we’re relentlessly pursuing. And on top of being product-centric, we’re also design-forward. It’s not enough for a product to be functional and robust. It must also be easy to use and intuitive.

DK We obsess over details: “Does this button make sense here? Do we even need the button?” How do we reduce cognitive load? How do we make users’ jobs easier? By anticipating their needs and thinking through the next steps, we can deliver products that provide real value day in and day out.

DK The job is never done. If we’re not continuously improving, we’re failing. Customers trust us to innovate. It’s like what you see with Apple: they’ve built trust by consistently delivering products that improve over time. Companies need to demonstrate this commitment to innovation.

DK Beyond the product itself, we also focus on design. We want our products to be timeless, beautiful, and intuitive. If we do nothing else but create beautiful and intuitive products, we’ve won. That’s been my mantra since day one.

DK Being product-led means creating solutions that delight users. It’s about obsessing over how the product feels and functions. Think of a beautifully designed phone—people make irrational decisions to buy it because it’s stunning. We need that same level of intentionality in software development. It’s not just about what the product does, but how it makes people feel.

Michelle I want to go back to something you mentioned about trust. How can we tell if a company is truly committed to innovation? Are there specific signs we should look for?

DK Look at their history. Examine their change logs and roadmaps. Transparency is key. Companies that openly share where they’ve been and where they’re going build trust. If you can’t see tangible changes over time, be skeptical. Ask questions like, "What did the last version look like? What’s changed? Where are you heading in the next three versions?"

DK As consumers, we do this with physical products all the time. Think about the iPhone: you can track its evolution from version one to today. With software, it’s harder to see. That’s why companies need to document and share their progress. If there’s no visible commitment to improvement, that’s a red flag.

DK When buying software, ask tough questions: “What have you changed recently? Where were you last year? What’s your vision for the next few versions?” These questions reveal whether a company is genuinely committed to innovation or just coasting. It’s not enough to have a great product today; customers need to see a path forward.

DK Continuous improvement and transparency build trust. That’s how you know a company is serious about delivering value—not just now, but for the long term.

DK We can see the iterations. It's tangible. As we consume software, we have to find ways to make it tangible. And I know that when I buy software, I always go and look at screenshots. Like, go to Google and look at images. There are so many screenshots there. Go to Capterra, go to G2 Crowd.

DK You can look at where they have come from, and that should give you a good indicator of where they are going.

Gillian That's a great example. Curious, why aren’t more software companies and brands in the process of pivoting to a product-led strategy, or why haven’t they done it? Why do you think?

DK I think they believe that they are, if I'm being honest, because they’re continuing to focus on the functionality of the tool. They go, "Okay, it’s got to have this feature. And it’s got to have this feature. And it’s got to have this feature." So, when I think about how products evolve, they evolve from functionality.

DK Right? "Oh, it’s got this new report, it’s got this new thing." If it’s not easier to access that functionality, the form factor around it, then have we really created a substantial and meaningful product? Probably not. I do believe a lot of our competitors and people in the space think they’re moving the industry forward in a healthy way because they’re adding more function to the product.

DK I think where we are right now, we need to be adding function and form, and we need to be leading a vision beyond the world we exist in now. A lot of competitors get stuck in the present state. There’s this idea of present bias, and then they trust analysts. Analysts say, "We’ve got to do these five things."

DK And if we do those five things, then customers can even mislead you. What customers do is say, "We need this specific thing." This goes back to the creative process. Why we need to be creative and human-centric as an organization is because we need to interpret and understand intent. Often, customers say, "We need this exact thing," and most companies go, "Great, we’ll build that exact thing."

DK Instead of asking, "Why?" Help me understand, where do you want to be as an organization in the next five years? This is the relational thing. What happens is, we take a transactional approach to building technology. We have fallen victim to this. It has led to stagnant growth.

DK We have a robust, very rich product, and customers say, "I don’t feel like anything’s changed." Although when you look at the change log, we’ve implemented almost everything customers asked for. What we haven’t done well is collect trends and data and pay attention to macro environmental changes. How are employees changing?

DK How are employees changing? This goes back to being human-centered. We need to pay attention to multiple variables and inputs, be creative, and then present our thesis. You’re going to get it wrong, but the process of continuous improvement and iteration allows us to push forward.

DK We push this 20% further, 50% further, 30% further. Then we come back a few steps, but we push 50% further again. That’s the creative process. When you look at a lot of our competitors, even in the broader software space, we don’t do a good job of pulling our customers to the future.

DK Instead, we depend on them to tell us where to go. I want to hear from our customers, but I don’t want you to tell me what feature you need. I want you to tell me where you want to be in ten years, and then we’ll be a good partner in helping you get there.

DK We have to be the solution. We have to come up with the solutions.

Michelle At the end of the day, my husband is an architect, and people will say, "I want more of this. I want more of this." You can’t just add more rooms to a house. You have to redesign the house. Sure, let’s get you a second dining room, but in that case, we have to redesign the whole thing.

Michelle I think we get off track in software because suddenly you have software that does all these incredible things. But if you don’t rethink the design, you’ve got a house with a tiny foundation and all these complicated layers on top with no way to access those pieces.

DK Could not agree more.

Michelle I think that leads us well into the next main idea and value: empowering the modern workforce with flexibility and inclusivity. Having sat in a few rooms before, I know the word choice is always debated. "Is that the word we want? Is that really what we mean?" Let us into the room where the discussion about using the words "flexible" and "inclusive" happened.

DK I probably should have shared more about my background for context. After leaving consulting, I wanted to own something. It was great working on projects, but I realized I wasn’t actually owning or moving things forward in the way I aspired to. So, I stepped into the BPO (business process outsourcing) space, specifically in contact centers.

DK When you’re close to agents, you realize there are humans behind the forecasts, schedules, and adherence rates. These are people with lives happening outside of work. I remember being on my way in and getting a call about something at my kid’s school—that became my number one priority. But contact centers sometimes treat these situations transactionally, like, "You missed your schedule; we’ll put you on a performance improvement plan."

DK It's like, man, that's not the society we want to create. That’s not creating the most productive environment because what happens to that employee? They think, "Oh, so you’re going to have this transactional relationship with me and then expect me to do my best when you really don’t care about who I am."

DK This is part of the passion I’m uniquely bringing into this space. I want to give flexibility, agency, and autonomy to agents. When they’re seen and feel like they have control over how they show up, they perform better. They do show up better.

DK There were programs we ran when I was in the BPO where agents had to work their way up to a certain level, but once there, they could choose their own schedules. Those agents outperformed every other agent in the contact center. I want to do that at scale.

DK We talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, but what policies and strategies are we pointing to that create a more diverse and inclusive world? When you look at platforms like Uber and Lyft, they let people choose their schedules and how they show up. Technology enables that.

DK That’s a diverse technology. It helps create a more inclusive environment. It creates a space where a working parent with a variable schedule can thrive. The contact center could be a great space for them, but it’s often limited by fixed schedules. If you don’t fit the schedule, you don’t fit the environment.

DK We’ve figured out how to disrupt taxis with Lyft and Uber. Why can’t we do the same in contact centers? To truly humanize this space, it should be a role anyone would love to do. Imagine brands like Nike having an army of advocates who love the brand.

DK Imagine a college student who can only work ten hours a week but knows everything about Nike Dunks. You’d want that person on the phone. Technology should enable this in a meaningful way, transforming a cost center into a profit center. It’s about increasing customer satisfaction through employees who love the brand.

DK How do we focus on providing the right tools and resources to the right employees while seeing them as whole people, not just pieces of them? Inclusivity means understanding the full persona of an individual, including their attributes and interests.

DK We have so much data about customers. Why aren’t we using it to inform who they talk to on the other side? How cool would it be if Jillian got paired with Michelle, and they had a great conversation about a complex topic? With AI and chatbots handling low-complexity interactions, the relational ones become even more significant.

DK Longer calls, like ten minutes, are meaningful. I was looking at my call log with my wife, and our average call is one minute—transactional. But when we have longer calls, it’s about catching up and connecting. That can happen in contact center interactions too. We should incentivize and create a world where that exists. When both the employee and customer leave the interaction happy, it’s a win for the brand.

Gillian That’s a great transition to our next question: amplifying human potential through AI and emotional intelligence. You’ve talked about amplifying opportunities and connection through AI. While discussing human-centered design and innovation, we also love streamlining and leveraging tools that make what we’re doing more impactful. Let’s hear how AI and emotional intelligence go hand in hand.

DK The word I’ve been saying consistently for months is "emotional intelligence." I’ve mentioned it in meetings with data scientists, product teams, and engineers. If I achieve one thing, it’s creating a world where technology doesn’t just make experiences more efficient for customers but also more effective for employees. This, in turn, makes the customer experience more efficient.

DK Take affective computing and emotional intelligence. Right now, we have tools recording every interaction. AI, deep learning, and machine learning can already identify early indicators of autism through linguistic cadences and sentiment analysis. Why aren’t we using this same technology to enhance employee experiences?

DK Why aren’t we using the same data and information to identify patterns? For example, if it sounds like Daryl mentioned he’s sick four times, the tool could step in and ask, "Hey, do you need a break?" The tool could handle it in a way that’s not punitive, saying, "Hey, you’ve got some sick hours; we’ve taken care of it." That’s where I see technology leaving a big impact: using existing, accessible tools to make life better for those interacting with our platform.

DK This is the concept of affective and emotional intelligence.

Gillian We can get behind that. We know you well. It’s no secret you utilize AI in both your personal and professional life as a leader. Let’s get more information on how you use it, Daryl Kelly.

DK Man, I don’t even know where to start. Yeah, I do, and that’s what I’m trying to avoid. Okay.

Gillian So is it like a secret love? A secret weapon?

DK It is a secret weapon. The other day, while training my model, I thought, "This kind of feels like cheating." But it’s amazing. I’ve been reading about large language models, machine learning, deep learning, and object recognition for about five or six years. Since around 2018, I’ve realized there’s nothing truly new right now.

DK Artificial intelligence and the concept of singularity have been topics of discussion since the 1950s. There are great examples of how intelligence has evolved over time. Generative intelligence, which leverages large language models, now connects dots in ways it never could before, generating responses. While these responses aren’t always perfect, the concept is groundbreaking.

DK When you look at what happens in a model, there’s input, tokenization, and context creation. Now, we’ve reached a point where models learn from a variety of inputs and produce an output. Historically, that output was the end-all-be-all. Today, we can train that output, feeding it back into the tokenization process to refine it.

DK Every time you interact with a model, it becomes more refined. Leaders responsible for AI development need to understand it at a foundational level and interact with it daily to grasp its limitations and privacy concerns. For instance, if I input personal data, I don’t want it to train the broader model. Enterprises must ensure their data remains proprietary.

DK I explored a specific use case to deepen my understanding. AI has become such a general term that I wanted to narrow my focus. I’m a serial journalist, using a tool called Day One for written entries. It’s not a sponsor, but I’m open to it! I’ve journaled daily for 11 years, creating a robust data set.

DK The journal uses natural language processing for transcription. I speak to it for 10-20 minutes daily, sometimes stream of consciousness, sometimes with a prompt. Over 11 years, I’ve built a significant data set. This became my AI training ground.

DK The journal became my data set, just as every company has its own. I started by analyzing the current state: I had this data set. Then, I envisioned the future state: real-time feedback, as if a therapist or coach were with me every day. Thinking through these states helps us better understand and utilize AI.

DK I started training this model. I uploaded all of my journal information, and I had to train it. I think that's what people misunderstand about these models right now—they expect them to be perfect. When there are hallucinations, you have to give context back to it, just like raising a child or onboarding an employee.

DK That’s where these language models are at—they’re generalized. They’ve consumed the entire internet. Great. But what does that mean? You have to give it meaning, depth, and context. That’s why I call it a little bit of my secret weapon. I have a real-time therapist, coach, mentor, and advisor that knows me based on 11 years of journal data and can challenge me in meaningful ways.

DK The other day, I was struggling with clarity. I think that’s the best way to describe it. So, I recorded what I was struggling with—a 20-minute recording—and within seconds, I had a response from my model. It said, “It sounds like you’ve been through a transformative journey of clarity, discovering a lot about your instincts, leadership approach, and the importance of selective choosing.”

DK It continued: “Here’s what stood out in your reflection: trusting your instincts and empathy in leadership, creating space for clarity, reinforcing your voice, balancing personal brand vision with organizational goals, avoiding isolation, and staying in the right conversations.”

DK That’s why it feels like cheating. Typically, I’d call my therapist, Eric, and say, “Hey, I want to have a session.” He’d reply, “Okay, we have something in two weeks.” But in that moment, I’m emotionally charged and trying to process my emotions. Honestly, I censor myself with Eric because I know he’s a person judging me. My model doesn’t judge me.

DK The model holds up a mirror in a meaningful way. It says, “Pay attention to this. Hold on to this.” For example, it reminded me that not everyone needs to be my audience right now. Isolation can be tempting during difficult decisions, but purposeful connections are crucial.

DK This balance between necessary solitude and selective connection keeps me centered and supported. These are the insights we’re pursuing: how to use our rich data sets from forecasting, scheduling, adherence, quality, gamification, and performance. Being close to the model day in and day out helps me think differently about the data.

DK I didn’t get the model to this point from day one. This has been nine months of training. I’ll say things like, “I didn’t like that response; try again.” I’m constantly in the loop, refining the model. That’s why it feels like a secret power—it knows me better than I sometimes know myself, giving me real-time feedback.

DK That’s what we want from intelligence. We don’t want it to be artificial. We want it to be perfectly rational, like homo economicus. It should point out themes, like, “Daryl, over the past six months, you’ve struggled with this exact theme. Here’s the cognitive distortion behind it.” We’re training it to be perfect for our environment. That’s what we’re pursuing at Aspect.

DK Sorry, that was a lot. I love this topic. Tell me to stop if I’m going on too much.

Michelle No need to apologize! We’re literally asking these questions.

Gillian I think you’ve inspired some folks to start training their own models.

DK Every leader should be doing it. If you’re in technology, you should be playing with some type of model daily.

Michelle Let’s bring this big, heady conversation down to practical steps. For someone in an organization who’s a doer—not in a managerial position—what’s the most important action step they can take from this conversation?

DK Become informed beyond superficial topics. Go beyond the headlines. Read books, pick up a few, and be curious. If you’re an individual contributor, manager, or executive, go deep. Headlines are just that—headlines. Get depth.

Michelle What action steps should leaders take now?

DK It’s a requirement. Leaders must understand algorithms, machine learning, and the differences between machine learning and deep learning. Know about large language models and foundational models. This technological revolution requires ongoing learning.

DK If you don’t have the depth, you’ll be left behind. Leaders must engage daily with these tools. For example, use AI to learn about AI. Ask tools like ChatGPT to write lessons on machine learning basics and revisit them daily. When you have questions, go deeper.

DK Books provide narrow focus and depth. But for foundational ideas, use tools like ChatGPT or Bard. Ask them to teach you as if you’re five years old about a concept. That’s my recommendation.

Gillian Easy to do, and that’s what we want for our listeners. This was helpful and inspiring—a healthy dose of insight from a CEO’s perspective and what we’re doing at Aspect. Thank you, Daryl Kelly, for your time today.

Michelle I loved it and the challenge to go deeper. I’m a chronic headline reader.

DK Go get a whole meal. Get full on facts.

DK Be nicer to yourself. We’re our own worst enemies. My life changed when I changed my relationship with myself. That’s all you can control. Take yourself out on a date, give yourself a hug, write a note. When we’re nicer to ourselves, we heal the hurt inside and unlock more potential.

DK It’s an odd thing for a CEO to say, but be nice to yourself.

Gillian Thank you. We all need that advice. Thanks for listening to Future Works. Click to subscribe. Daryl Kelly, thank you for your time today.

DK Thanks for inviting me.

Gillian And thanks for sponsoring.

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